Curse

Damon Windwalker · Dec 09, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Good example of another scam:

When I was bringing my last character through pre, I noticed that there were always people in the city trying to get black dyes from people. Most common seemed to be the conversational "Hey - does anyone have any black dye? I'll trade an orange for a black..." or offers to buy black for 50 or 100g.

Should ANet be responsible to make sure that someone isn't scamming newbies out of their black dye, too?

Mordakai · Dec 09, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Good example of another scam:

When I was bringing my last character through pre, I noticed that there were always people in the city trying to get black dyes from people. Most common seemed to be the conversational "Hey - does anyone have any black dye? I'll trade an orange for a black..." or offers to buy black for 50 or 100g.

Should ANet be responsible to make sure that someone isn't scamming newbies out of their black dye, too?

I've been thinking about this. Honestly, I do think it sucks that unless you've been to Post you have NO IDEA what dye is worth. People use Black Dye on collector armor (like I first did) or sell it for one Gold to the Merchant.

The people "scamming" Black Dye are abusing their knowledge of the game... but so do ALL traders to some extent or another.

The only real solution is to put a Dye Trader in Pre. Since Anet didn't do this, I can only conclude they WANT people to get ripped off!

(BTW, side debate, is it morally wrong to "scam" Black Dye like this? Is it the same crime as a Bait and Switch? IMO, no, because the seller and buyer agreed to the price. A Bait and Switcher offers one thing and provides another, which is obviously fraudulent.)

To make another example, I don't know the price of Gold items to save my life. I've never gotten a "perfect" one, and I've never tried to buy or sell one. If I find a "perfect" Chaos Axe, or whatever is hot, and sell it for 5k, have I been scammed? No, because I got it for more than I could sell it to a Merchant, and could have asked around to find the "correct" price!

On this note, maybe I should try to get some Black Dye in Pre to make up my loss....

nah, I'm not that evil.

Mordakai · Dec 09, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

...wait... if you've been victimized by a bait and switch more than once - you've got to take at least some of the blame.

Agreed. But if that first scam was for 16k (my case) or 65k (in Bart's case) that's a tough lesson to take...

Medion · Dec 09, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Good example of another scam:

When I was bringing my last character through pre, I noticed that there were always people in the city trying to get black dyes from people. Most common seemed to be the conversational "Hey - does anyone have any black dye? I'll trade an orange for a black..." or offers to buy black for 50 or 100g.

Should ANet be responsible to make sure that someone isn't scamming newbies out of their black dye, too?

`

I don't think you should consider this as a scam. This is a totally legal trade, it's not like someone gives 5-10 gold instead of the 50-100 gold.
To the person selling, that black dye obviously was worth only 50-100 gold. Ok, he didn't know about Post-Searing, but he could have asked too.

Now dont start with:

Quote:

i'm gonna laugh when you find yourself in their shoes and find that there isn't anyone that is even gonna try and help you because this world no longer has a heart.

I have been there too, (I bought someone else his armour

).

It's not fun, but in the end, I think you will be happier with your loss of 5-6K and the knowledge about how people scam, and as a result be sure you won't get scammed for that 50-60K later on.

BTW: I saw someone selling ~enslavement stones~ in Lions Arch, for the people who don't know, these are worth about 30gold. This guy is selling them for 60K!!!!

Bartdude · Dec 09, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozz

This entire thread can be summarized thusly:

Bart and Kai were scammed. The trader who scammed them was relying on certain facts about human behavior. In particular, the scammers were hopin that by misdirection, inattention to details, and general malaise they could bait and switch the items and gold traded without Bart and Kai being any the wiser.

This apparently was successful and Kai has admitted he learned a valubale lesson regarding trades and being more careful in the future. Kai thinks Anet/NCSoft should accomodate player inattention and malaise in an effort to protect the player from themselves. It is the majority opinion of this thread that ANet/NCSoft has no clear obligation to do so if the player is unwilling to protect themselves and it is clear no bug is present in the trade system.

Thus, the conclusion of this thread can simply be exercise more caution in the future and be aware of what it is the player is doing. Anything further just does not add constructively to this thread. Instead of focusing on how Anet/NCSoft are liable for player ignorance, suggest methods of avoiding being scammed in the future.

nicely put, some real intelligence at last. if u read the other thread i put my hand up to not being more aware but in my defense this type of thing obviously happens more in the US districts and it's only since coming here i see how widespread the problem is. as for being frustrated, yes i was a bit but not to the extent that i would go calling people names, thats the act of a child. i could go on and on but this whole thread has just turned into a slaggin match with the odd bit of sense thrown in here and there. at the end of the day as i said b4 i just wanted to make people aware of this person, NC-soft will deal with him. i just didn't want to see ne1 else get scammed in the mean time. still the whole issue has made good reading

koj11 · Dec 09, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, I agree that the "The lack of maturity, reason, and plain old common sense (which is definately not common at all) here is staggering."

But not for the reason you say.

To me, it's common sense to put some safeguards in place to help people from being scammed. People disagree, that's cool.

But just because you disagree with the idea of some simple safeguards to help prevent bait and switch scams, doesn't mean the idea is stupid!

I fail to see where I said "the idea is stupid". Actually, I didn't mention the idea of further safeguards at all. But since you brought it up...it is stupid. The safeguards are already in place. Both parties have to submit their offer. Then both parties have to hit accept. It was said that he "didn't notice" the box was grayed out or not. It's not a matter of not noticing. When it's grayed out, you can't click it. The logistics of the situation he is describing are impossible. What happened here is someone accepted a trade for gold when they thought it was for platinum. Whether that was misrepresented to him or not is beside the point now. The bottom line is that the buyer accepted a trade thinking it was something that it wasn't. I'm not saying it was done honestly or that it was right or whatever, but the safeguards are in place already to avoid such situations. People need to stop trying to blame their own lack of judgement, attention, or anything else on others. Take responsibility for your mistake, learn from it, and for God's sake, move on already.

Mordakai · Dec 09, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by koj11

Take responsibility for your mistake, learn from it, and for God's sake, move on already.

I have. I'm doing this for others.

CKaz · Dec 09, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

It's obvious there's a hole and that scammers would rather it remain

/signed

also auction house /signed, I can't tell you how many times I gave up trying to sell something and finally merchant it/give it away/whatever, and minutes later I see WTB exactly what I ditched/sold.

buy/sell matchups are abysmal in this game
I suppose I've been lucky enough not to be scammed simply because I dont do nearly the trading others do - I'd rather play than have the patience to line up the sale most of the time.

Mordakai · Dec 09, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Honestly, with all the scams out there, I would recommend NOT trading until the implementation of an auction house or something simliar.

Most things can be bought and sold at merchants (how I wish I had done this with my Black Dye - my greed for 2 extra thousand cost me!)

If you have to buy/sell Gold and Green weapons: Good luck! And Buyer beware!

Damon Windwalker · Dec 09, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

also auction house /signed, I can't tell you how many times I gave up trying to sell something and finally merchant it/give it away/whatever, and minutes later I see WTB exactly what I ditched/sold.

buy/sell matchups are abysmal in this game
I suppose I've been lucky enough not to be scammed simply because I dont do nearly the trading others do - I'd rather play than have the patience to line up the sale most of the time.

Although I resent the brain-dead implication that anyone who doesn't see this as being necessary must be a scammer, I do agree that the trading system sucks. Like you said, I don't do nearly the trading that I would do otherwise just because I'm here to play the game, no spend hours spamming "WTS" or "WTB"

The only things I've spent any time selling were greens...the only things I ever seem to buy are when I randomly happen to see something interesting when I'm waiting for a party to form up....

Barry Bethell · Dec 09, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I've never been scammed myself and of course if your careful it'll never happen, but what's wrong with more security for trading, the extra 'locked' screen would take an extra 1-2 seconds in a trade, new players especially are vulnerable to this and why cant we make the game a better place for all?

/signed

ps. just because someone got scammed doesn't make them 'stupid' 'lazy' and 'dumb' like some less forgiving people are suggesting in here, sure it's careless but that doesn't mean we should ignore the scum bags who scam honest players every day, some people attitude towards this topic astounds me tbh.

PieXags · Dec 09, 2005, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Seriously, this isn't going anywhere. As much as I'd love to sift through pages more of "It's your fault" and "You must be a scammer", I'm going to have to say it's closing time for this thread. This isn't a "How many times have I been scammed, and was it my fault?" section.

When either side modifies a trade, the other person's "Accept" deactivates incase they're about to click the button. Bait/Switch should not be an issue with trades. You both have to click "submit offer" so both trades have been submitted/modified, and you both have to click accept allowing for plenty of time and oppurtunity to check over the trade before hitting the final "accept" button.

Closed.